|
Post by atathus on May 6, 2015 14:40:09 GMT -5
As an aug for a shield ... I dont remember if I used a shield as war on live servers to tank any raid target ( DW or 2H is what I remember as the most used items ) Perhaps it was only in the later half of EQ's history, but I remember for UF, HoT, and VoA I had to use a shield exclusively for tanking raid targets. The dev team had put a lot of work into increasing the need for shield's on warriors. However, their fatal flaw was giving an AA that increased dps with a shield to the point that there was no use for 2Handers or dual-wield. The way I saw warriors was dual wielding or 2-hander for dps (based on preference), and shield for tanking. It ensures that warriors can change their play style, without becoming too overpowered (either they can tank well or they can dps well, but you can't let them have the best of both at the same time). I don't know about anyone else, but I have a bandolier just for shield tanking even on this server
|
|
|
Post by Atrayas on May 6, 2015 17:29:19 GMT -5
shouldn't use bandolier,its buggy and has been known to delete items. FYI
|
|
|
Post by Vinlar on May 6, 2015 23:18:36 GMT -5
As an aug for a shield ... I dont remember if I used a shield as war on live servers to tank any raid target ( DW or 2H is what I remember as the most used items ) Perhaps it was only in the later half of EQ's history, but I remember for UF, HoT, and VoA I had to use a shield exclusively for tanking raid targets. The dev team had put a lot of work into increasing the need for shield's on warriors. However, their fatal flaw was giving an AA that increased dps with a shield to the point that there was no use for 2Handers or dual-wield. The way I saw warriors was dual wielding or 2-hander for dps (based on preference), and shield for tanking. It ensures that warriors can change their play style, without becoming too overpowered (either they can tank well or they can dps well, but you can't let them have the best of both at the same time). I don't know about anyone else, but I have a bandolier just for shield tanking even on this server Early EQ, wars were primarily using a 2h to tank due to riposte dmg. Sometimes DW depending on what weapons they had access to.
|
|
|
Post by Genesis on May 7, 2015 0:25:25 GMT -5
Yeah, my experience with tanking was always to use 2h weapons where possible, especially for enrage. The lower hit rate meant not so many ripostes. Riposte is freakin' insane on live, or at least it was. Dunno now. Been 6 years since I touched it.
|
|
|
Post by Vinlar on May 7, 2015 2:26:17 GMT -5
PoP - OoW was really bad. That's when you really saw the major switch to 2h to tank. I quit in the OoW era so not sure how things were after then. I've returned over too many times over the years than I care to admit over the years, but never as a hardcore raider in that time (ignoring the progression guild I joined for 6-8months). So I can't speak for expansions beyond OoW.
|
|
|
Post by atathus on May 7, 2015 18:43:47 GMT -5
Last time I was a hardcore raider was 3 years ago. Riposte was still pretty decent, but nothing "insane". SoE really messed up warrior dps when they made the Improved Shield Block (or maybe it was Improved Shield Specialist) AA. It gave warriors a large damage boost for their main hand weapon if they were using a shield. The damage boost increased the ratios so that they were similar - or better - to 2H weapon ratios, but the delay was obviously lower so that gave many unintended benefits. AFAIK, since then, everyone just uses one set up (Sword and Board) for dps and tanking because it reduces the number of things that warriors have to spend DKP on (or whatever loot system the guild happens to have) and because it actually beats other dps set ups most the time. For a while, if the raid leader put me into the right support group - and I wasn't main tanking - (bard and shaman at the very least), I'd hit the top of the dps parses pretty consistently
|
|
|
Post by loonie on May 9, 2015 21:25:08 GMT -5
Well, for my input for a Warrior Aug...
Really, what I would want most is Survivability. We are the only Tank Class that has no innate way to heal ourselves. I would gladly yield DPS for more survivability. So long as my warrior can stay alive and keep aggro Im happy.
I dont want to try and make things more complicated, but what about going 2 totally different ways with the augs? A DPS version and a Survivability version (sacrifices dps for more survivability).
Loonie Warloona
|
|
|
Post by atathus on May 10, 2015 0:52:01 GMT -5
After looking at the SK aug thread and seeing the creativity there, I went to thesteelwarrior.org to see if I could dig up some of the great ideas that warriors had when the devs were asking what the live community wanted... Only to find that thesteelwarrior has been dead for what looks like almost half a year now (dead as in the admins aren't paying for it to be hosted anymore). Anyway, I started thinking about what some of the really awesome AA's/discs were on live, tried to remember every "what if" idea I'd ever heard, and just started thinking about the lore surrounding warriors. I really liked Acius' comment about making a proc that requires paying attention and doing something, so I tried thinking of that. Ideas: Proc'd Buff for either a select duration or that has counters that (one or more of these - perhaps an overall counter that allows us to choose which of these we want to do) - 1. Whenever a warrior taunts an enemy, DD proc (this was the least original of my ideas, as it is based off live's Barbed Tongue discipline) - 2. Bashing an enemy guarantees a stun, as well as a debuff on the mob that decreases AC and dodge/avoidance - 3. Kicking an enemy gives a chance to cripple a mob, sending it to its knees so that the next weapon hit will be especially fatal (not necessarily a killing blow, but substantially more damage) - each kick would still drive down the counter, but it wouldn't be 100% guaranteed that the kick would enable a fatal blow - 4. Using the cyclone/vortex blade line of discipline would enable an AE version of the proc currently in the main hand (I imagine this one would be the most difficult to program, not to mention the easiest to abuse due to life tap procs) Proc'd Buff that creates a counter that at a max number of said counter will reset reuse on Mighty Strike / Fellstrike / Brutal Onslaught / Fortitude / Furious (one of these) Proc'd buff that holds a counter of every time we avoid an attack (dodge, parry, riposte - pick one or all). When counter gets to a maximum number, we get a "super" bash/kick that does massive damage (maybe AE?) or debuff. Proc'd buff that makes us immune to spells for a given amount of time - or reflect said spells. I dunno how you'd balance it, but an ability that lets us "absorb" spells to increase our own power would be really cool, I think. Proc'd buff that gives us a time limited double/triple/quad kick or bash ability. (Is it obvious that I'm upset about the lack of love/scaling that kick and bash got over the years? ) Proc'd buff that makes a random specific type of weapon do much more damage for a short amount of time Proc'd buff that allows a "shield riposte" (IE, instead of blocking the attack with the shield, you shove your shield into the attack, blocking it and doing damage to them) Proc that silences mob Proc'd "buff" that if we cure off of ourselves, would do some sort of large AE damage/debuff; if not cured in time, slows or debuffs us (I can't think of what sort of reasoning would be behind this, and I don't think many people would want this... but it was an idea) Proc that gives us Mighty Strike and Brutal Onslaught at the same time <3 (or a new spell that is a combo of the two. Mighty Onslaught) (Or if you really really love us, Mighty Strike + Brutal Onslaught + Furious Discipline. Furiously Mighty Onslaught) Can we put clickies on aug's? Or could part of the 2.5 aug be an ammo slot item with a clicky on it(not just warriors, any class) If so, then possible clicky ideas: - Spell that "steals" AC, ATK, or max HP from current mob (realistically, puts debuff on mob and buff/song on warrior - I'd prefer song simply because there are so many debuffer mobs) - Spell that can only be cast outside of combat, and ensures that the next attack does crippling damage (in the form of a large short term debuff, or just raw damage).
|
|
|
Post by yunke on May 24, 2015 8:47:19 GMT -5
With all the changes, think the aug version to reduce our disc CDs or to reset CDs is a good option to take into consideration
|
|
|
Post by yunke on May 30, 2015 4:35:52 GMT -5
And after play as team ( since its fun ) and group with different players from this server, what we need is a way to keep aggro on us I had hard times to keep aggro on me, and sometimes group members die by that Yes, they need to control the dmg / aggro they earn, but even doing that, its hard to work on aggro. So I bet for the aug idea that reduces the CD on disc ( or resets it ) + hate mod with DD , and yes, with good stats Btw , 2.0 will have 3 or 4 slots to fill augs? =)
|
|
|
Post by trilith on Jun 1, 2015 12:18:19 GMT -5
I think warriors need something that lets them tank better then the other classes. I see paladins tank better then warriors on occasion. SK can tank better for a short period but then we just die and im fine with that we are meant to be dps tanks.
But yeah i agree something that gives warriors a significant tankability bonus and aggro bonus would be great for them. I dont know warriors dps so i wont comment on that.
|
|
|
Post by yunke on Jun 1, 2015 12:53:33 GMT -5
we are warriors, a DPM ( Damage per month ) class not a DPS ( Damage per second ) hehehe
|
|
|
Post by Vinlar on Jun 1, 2015 15:45:33 GMT -5
we are warriors, a DPM ( Damage per month ) class not a DPS ( Damage per second ) hehehe That made me laugh pretty good. I'll look into some agro ideas, I do agree warriors need a slight boost in one area or another to make them stand out a bit more. With the recent disc / aa timers the knights really benefited quite a bit, which was needed.
|
|
|
Post by yunke on Jun 1, 2015 23:04:27 GMT -5
We are tanks, we dont need dps. ofc its something that will help, but tbh with all the changes you guys made, and how the new raid targets are working, we are more set up as a group than a duo / solo for the fights. So wars are where they should be and are on live servers, on the tank class and the front line. I like how this works now, you dont see the same guy with his alt / or solo, getting all camps , kills , loot and wihout a chance to get the kill yourself just cuz all is controled by the same crew Yes, I found in the first time, that deff disc CD now will give us a hard time to tank, but after test it alot, like I posted in this forum, play with 1h + shield solved main problems Its nice to group up with players and get targets. Depending on the group dps you can go DW or use 1h + shield, and this give us lots of options to play with others. Even with all the changes, wars are still the best tanks I find in the server. Yes, Sks can solo most of the stuff but we still have our disc that makes the difference. So I think the idea is to go by the aggro / tankage way. Again, we dont need more dmg , where it will come from ? DD procs ? dmg from wep ? I find it a waste of time tbh. If you cant keep your group alive, why you want to do more dps ? you will die anyway The idea on have a chance to reuse a disc during a long fight is awsome, that will give us more ideas to play but I dont think its something that we must have, we can keep going without that since we are doing it right now, and still will get targets. The aggro mod is a must I think, ppl tend to go mad and do max dps and then die and /cry cuz you aint doing your job, when its their fault, but extra help is always welcome. I was searching for aggro augs, and we are limited and the ones I found use an slot that I have a better use for it =) And for the times I go with 1h + shield, I have better augs on my primary hand Thats why Im asking if 2.0 will have 4 slots, cuz then I have a mental tetris on what I will use on my primary So ideas for the aug ( wep aug ) 200 ac 3000 hp heroic stats ( like 10? ) 25 dmg spellname for Hate proc ( if you want to add some DD to give more aggro, its ok ) worneffect % aggro multiplier ( cant remember whats our top multiplier right now, but something better ) We also can take this aug as a base aug and add some group benefits, like a proc group rune spell. Or add a mitigation innate stat for us, so when our disc is down, we still have a good way to be more time tanking ( then we dont need the refresh aug for our disc ) So , to finish, lets focus on the tank part
|
|
|
Post by vallik on Jun 4, 2015 21:32:54 GMT -5
Tanks in Aion had an ability to pull mobs towards them, both a single target and aoe. How about something like that on the warrior aug? That way, instead of having to chase down mobs and drag the boss/rest of the pack with you when 1 runs off towards the healer/dps you can stay in place, target and drag it back. Put a short duration unresistable root on it (like 5s?) which gives you enough time to build some aggro (that or make the ability itself like taunt - matches the current top aggro +1 so it doesn't run straight off again). EDIT: AION Templar pull skill
|
|