Post by Genesis on Apr 3, 2015 23:34:18 GMT -5
To continue the theme of classes that could possibly use some adjustment, I'd like to raise a few issues with Paladins that I feel need to be addressed.
Some of this has been discussed in other threads but I think it needs to be consolidated here and kept in focus.
I main a Paladin, and I'm up to Kod`Taz. How Paladins handle content beyond this I cannot say, but given the issues I'm having at this point, I'd say there's going to be some problems later too.
I'll begin the thread with one problem, and offer some possible solutions (and welcome input from others). Once the problem has been addressed, we can re-evaluate and see where we're at. No point throwing in multiple issues that may be fixed in one fell swoop.
The main problem is agro. The agro generation addition to the Divine Might line of spells is very helpful in maintaining agro on longer fights where the procs have time to go off and generate agro over time. Thanks for this addition.
Where it does not help is snap agro. It is impossible to snag adds with this form of agro generation. It's not castable, it's not ranged, and it's not reliable. Procs could happen a million times a minute, or not at all, there's no way to know. I can't target an add and rip it off a group member. The best I can do is spam group heals, swap targets and pray for a proc.
My suggestion in regards to this as a single-target problem is to modify our stuns to contain an agro component. Stuns are largely useless on this server, and since the vast majority of mobs are immune to stuns, they pretty much have no place on my spellbar. Giving stuns this agro component would make them useful again, like they were on live. They may not stun (I don't expect you to make all mobs stunnable), but at least they will give us a tool to pull with and to generate some reliable agro instead of relying on a random melee proc.
The problem becomes far more significant when you look at AOE agro generation. Since spell agro has been reduced, group heals are useless for this task. On live, group heals generated enough agro to keep the mobs on the tank. On Imperium, it does nothing. Some people have suggested to me that I just need to manage my single target spells better, but when you have situations like Phase 3 in PoTime where there are groups of 15+ mobs swarming your group, trying to target and pull every mob individually is a pointless exercise.
Warriors and Shadowknights have a tool to grab groups of mobs, and I think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a similar type of mechanic on Paladins. Changing one of our stuns to a PBAOE agro spell would be fine. Put it on a 45 second cooldown and the problem is solved. I don't want to have any advantage over the other tanks in the area of agro management but without these tools, tanking on a Paladin is frustrating and disheartening. Sure, they have really good survivability, which I would expect from a Cleric/Warrior hybrid, and their DPS sucks balls, which I would also expect (I don't want to see increased DPS, Paladins are the slow but sure tanks and I'm happy with that), it's just useless having all of these defensive abilities if I can't make the mobs want to hit me instead of my healer.
I hope I was able to get my thoughts and feelings across without sounding ungrateful or aggressive. This server is important to me and I really hope that things work out, this post is just me giving my perspective on how to make Paladins relevant because at the moment it seems that Warriors are the only class people are using for progression tanking.
Some of this has been discussed in other threads but I think it needs to be consolidated here and kept in focus.
I main a Paladin, and I'm up to Kod`Taz. How Paladins handle content beyond this I cannot say, but given the issues I'm having at this point, I'd say there's going to be some problems later too.
I'll begin the thread with one problem, and offer some possible solutions (and welcome input from others). Once the problem has been addressed, we can re-evaluate and see where we're at. No point throwing in multiple issues that may be fixed in one fell swoop.
The main problem is agro. The agro generation addition to the Divine Might line of spells is very helpful in maintaining agro on longer fights where the procs have time to go off and generate agro over time. Thanks for this addition.
Where it does not help is snap agro. It is impossible to snag adds with this form of agro generation. It's not castable, it's not ranged, and it's not reliable. Procs could happen a million times a minute, or not at all, there's no way to know. I can't target an add and rip it off a group member. The best I can do is spam group heals, swap targets and pray for a proc.
My suggestion in regards to this as a single-target problem is to modify our stuns to contain an agro component. Stuns are largely useless on this server, and since the vast majority of mobs are immune to stuns, they pretty much have no place on my spellbar. Giving stuns this agro component would make them useful again, like they were on live. They may not stun (I don't expect you to make all mobs stunnable), but at least they will give us a tool to pull with and to generate some reliable agro instead of relying on a random melee proc.
The problem becomes far more significant when you look at AOE agro generation. Since spell agro has been reduced, group heals are useless for this task. On live, group heals generated enough agro to keep the mobs on the tank. On Imperium, it does nothing. Some people have suggested to me that I just need to manage my single target spells better, but when you have situations like Phase 3 in PoTime where there are groups of 15+ mobs swarming your group, trying to target and pull every mob individually is a pointless exercise.
Warriors and Shadowknights have a tool to grab groups of mobs, and I think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a similar type of mechanic on Paladins. Changing one of our stuns to a PBAOE agro spell would be fine. Put it on a 45 second cooldown and the problem is solved. I don't want to have any advantage over the other tanks in the area of agro management but without these tools, tanking on a Paladin is frustrating and disheartening. Sure, they have really good survivability, which I would expect from a Cleric/Warrior hybrid, and their DPS sucks balls, which I would also expect (I don't want to see increased DPS, Paladins are the slow but sure tanks and I'm happy with that), it's just useless having all of these defensive abilities if I can't make the mobs want to hit me instead of my healer.
I hope I was able to get my thoughts and feelings across without sounding ungrateful or aggressive. This server is important to me and I really hope that things work out, this post is just me giving my perspective on how to make Paladins relevant because at the moment it seems that Warriors are the only class people are using for progression tanking.